Subject: Re: [HM] "maths" in lieu of "math"
From: Julio Gonzalez Cabillon (jgc@adinet.com.uy)
Date: Tue Mar 28 2000 - 10:48:37 EST
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Original message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author: Julio Gonzalez Cabillon <jgc@adinet.com.uy>
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:07:33 -0200
On Tue, 2 Dec 1997, John McKay <MCKAY@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote:
| ...
| Finally for those hooked on words: why Maths in UK, Math in US ?
|
| John McKay
Well, this topic was already discussed -- JGC
---------------
Author: Jim Murdock <jmurdock@iastate.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:00:42 -0400
I read in the newspaper yesterday that in 1918, the governor of Iowa
decreed that God would no longer hear the prayers of Iowans unless they
were in English. I presume he meant good American English and not the kind
that furriners speak, such as saying "maths" when any real American would
say "math."
Anyway, I happen not to agree with said governor, even if I do complain
sometimes about the difficulty of communicating with foreign graduate
students. So I would like to know, in case I find myself in an English-
speaking country overseas, answers to the following questions.
1. Do you actually pronounce the "s" at the end of "maths"?
2. Do you say "maths are" (where we would say "math is")?
3. If maths is really plural, what is an example of "a math"? Is a
subject (like calculus or algebra) regarded as a math? Or is a problem a
math? Or a number?
I suppose that in America we all know, if we stop to think of it, that
"mathematics" is formally plural, but I think it is ALWAYS treated as
singular. Is this an example of a systematic difference between English
and American? (I think I've heard that in England you say "the committee
are.")
.....................................................................
Jim Murdock TO SPEAK is to create the opportunity
Mathematics Dept. to learn why what I said is not true.
Iowa State University
Ames Iowa 50011
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Author: John Conway <conway@math.Princeton.EDU>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:44:53 -0400
Replies from one English mathematician to questions about
English "mathematics":
1) Yes, we do pronounce the "s" at the end of "maths".
(At least most of us do - however, we're quite used to
hearing "math" from American mathematicians, and might well
use it back to them in conversation.)
2) However, we say "maths is", rather than "maths are",
just as we do with "politics" or "economics".
(I HAVE heard, once or twice in my life, a formal elderly
person say something like "the mathematics of it are very subtle",
but regard that usage as obsolete.)
3) I've forgotten just what the third question was, but think
it asked something about the singular of this plural, "maths".
So since we use "maths" as a singular noun, it's irrelevant.
In summary, the situation is very simply described: we
use "maths" exactly as you use "math", as an abbreviation
for the word "mathematics", which we all decline as a singular
noun.
John Conway
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Subject: RE: math and maths
Author: John G. Fauvel <J.G.Fauvel@open.ac.uk>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:29:36 -0400
Dear Jim,
Q1. Do you actually pronounce the "s" at the end of "maths"?
A: Yes
Q2. Do you say "maths are" (where we would say "math is")?
A: No, it's generally treated as a singular.
Q3. If maths is really plural, what is an example of "a math"?
A: The question doesn't arise
For the extended word "mathematics", these issues are treated more fully in
Fowler's Modern English Usage, art. "-ics". Fowler makes the point that
mathematics is one of a whole class of words such as dynamics, acoustics,
physics, athletics &c. The different American and British contractions are
just that, and don't in themselves make any comment on singular/plural usage.
In other words, the "s" at the end of "maths" isn't a plural form, but just
part of the contraction of the word "mathematics".
Best wishes, John Fauvel
PS The question of "the committee are" isn't as simple as you imply. It
can be treated as singular or plural depending on the nuance of meaning
intended.
---------------
Author: Lawrence Shirley <E7M2SHI@TOE.TOWSON.EDU>
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:22:01 -0400
While teaching in Nigeria for many years, I (an American) got quite used
to putting the "s" on the end of "math" (and also remembering that "z"
isn't "zee" but "zed" and "exponents" are "indices" and "zero" is
"nought") so I had to change back when I returned to the US (in fact, in
Nigeria I was even "thinking metric" and also had to change back). To
this day, I still have a bumper sticker on my car, from the Mathematical
Assoc of Nigeria, that says "MATHS IS THE KEY".
Lawrence Shirley (formerly of Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria, Nigeria)
Dept of Math(...), Towson State University, Towson MD 21204
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