Re: [MATHEDCC] Retention or look out the sky is falling

Rob Kimball (rlkimbal@WTCC-GW.WAKE.TEC.NC.US)
Wed, 16 Apr 1997 10:07:18 -0400 (EDT)

No, its really just Hale-Bob..............

Seriously, Vern, you make a good point. But, I would like to add
some of my opinions.

Reform is more about how we teach than what we teach. Yes, content
is changing, but content _must not_ change without changes in the way
we teach. If content changes and the way we teach doesn't we will
have "lowered the bar." If we change the way we teach and don't change
the content, we have overkill-both faculty and students suffer. The
problems that have been addressed on this list serve can surely be
related to teachers who are either trying to serve two masters-
the old curriculum and technology, or are stuck in the 50's and have no
intention of adding technology or changing the way they teach even when
the content has changed.

We are surely at a crossroads and the road we need to take is uphill
while the road that offers an alternative is downhill.

On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Vern Kays wrote:

> Having read recent comments related to retention and the related subjects,
> lack of student performance and outside pressure to change. I want to
> encourage all faculty to stand firm. We may be losing a war, but it will
> be lost battle by battle. There is increasing pressure from outside the
> mathematics community, adminstrators, nursing departments, none mathematics
> areas, and students to lower the bar. Reform is not about lowering the bar
> of mathematical competence. It is about changing the way we teach to meet
> the needs of student. It is harder not easier. Students need more help.
> MOre support around the class room. It takes time. We cannot replace in one
> or even two semesters what was not learned or deemed important to the
> student in 5 or six years of middle and high school. And it is not just
> mathematics that is being attacked, we are being told to creat a new course
> for our LPN nurses that will do in one semester what 3 or 4 semesters of
> real college level science must do. Why? Because the LPN Association
> demands that our school drop six hours of credit. Rather then create
> compentent nurses with appropriate pre-requisites we are going to keep an
> open door policy. Give them a course that will never meet any real college
> level ability.
>
> There is a growing confusion about community colleges role. WE can provide
> the first two years of college level content. It does not mean that students
> can our should always obtain that content in two years. Given the fact that
> only 17% of our students place in college mathematics via placement. It is
> little wonder that it can take a student 3 to 5 semesters just to get to
> college level mathematics in the first place. I know I am ranting but I am
> getting ready to take on the VP of Academic Affairs over just these and
> other issues today. So I am venting in the hope I will maintain a certain
> level of calm later today.
>
> On a different note. We have a successful rental program that we developed
> with in the department. We used some seed money and purchased TI -82's and
> later 83's and some 92's. We ran it out of the department for several
> semesters until it became to large and turned it over to our book store. We
> have forms and procedures if any one wants to see them send me snail mail
> address and I will send a copy of the materials to you.
>
> May your day be bright and may you students see the logic of your purpose.
>
> Vern Kays
>
> ****************************************************************************
> * To post to the list: email mathedcc@archives.math.utk.edu *
> * To unsubscribe, send mail to: majordomo@archives.math.utk.edu *
> * In the mail message, enter ONLY the words: unsubscribe mathedcc *
> * Words in the Subject: line are NOT processed! *
> * Archives at http://archives.math.utk.edu/hypermail/mathedcc/ *
> ****************************************************************************
>

Robert L Kimball 919-662-3602 (Office)
Chair, Mathematics and Physics Dept 919-266-0850 (Home)
Wake Technical Community College Raleigh, NC 27603-5696

****************************************************************************
* To post to the list: email mathedcc@archives.math.utk.edu *
* To unsubscribe, send mail to: majordomo@archives.math.utk.edu *
* In the mail message, enter ONLY the words: unsubscribe mathedcc *
* Words in the Subject: line are NOT processed! *
* Archives at http://archives.math.utk.edu/hypermail/mathedcc/ *
****************************************************************************