Re: gabriel's horn


Subject: Re: gabriel's horn
From: Abraham S. Mantell (mantell@polar.sunynassau.edu)
Date: Fri Feb 25 2000 - 22:01:17 EST


This reasoning reminds me of the explanation I received from the venerable
William Boyce (author of the famous DE text) when I had him for Calculus
and asked him the very same question!

Roughly, he said:

Area = Length * Height, so we get an indeterminate form like: 0 * infinity
                        which in this case is infinity.
Volume = Length * Width * Height, which yields an indeterminate form
                        like 0 * 0 * infinity, thus the 0 squared
                        has a "slowing" effect and makes this
                        indeterminate form finite!

Does not really help with physical interpreation, but does help with the
mathematical intuition.

Abe Mantell

mantell@sunynassau.edu

On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Martha Haehl wrote:

> This is not an intuitive explanation of Gabriel's Horn, but possibly adds to
> the paradox. That an infinite area rotated can result in a finite volume.
> The paradox comes from a Calc III look at Gabriel's horn.
>
> If the volume is taken by calculating the limit of Riemann sums set up in
> the following manner, the limit is one where at least one of the 3-d slices
> (if not all) has infinite volume. The final limit of the Riemann sum would
> involve a limit as the thickness (assuming same thickness for each slice)
> goes to zero while the area of the slice is infinite.
>
> Set it up this way. The z be the horizontal axis, the x-axis from left to
> right, and the y-axis from front to back. z = | 1/x |, for x positive,
> gives upper and lower bounds of the intersection of the horn with the x-z
> plane. Partition the horn by taking cross-sectional areas with uniform
> thickness "delta y" and the area between the upper and lower portions of the
> curve, z = | 1/x |, created by cutting the horn with planes parallel to the
> x-z plane. Then create the Riemann sums of the cross-sectional areas (which
> is not really a Riemann sum since each term of the sum is infinite). Take
> the limit of the sum as delta y goes to zero, and we know the result is
> finite. I find this an interesting example of the indeterminant form,
> (zero)(infinity).
>
> Happy thinking!
> Martha
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Hertzel <hertzpau@niacc.cc.ia.us>
> To: <mathedcc@archives.math.utk.edu>
> Cc: Paul Hertzel <hertzpau@niacc.cc.ia.us>
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: gabriel's horn
>
>
> > RayM wrote,
> >
> > > Once the
> > >coating thickness is specified, it is trivial to calculate the area that
> a
> > >given volume will cover _to that thickness._ The comparison to 1/x is
> > >that filling volume allows the "coating" thickness to thin out away from
> > >the origin. Actually painting the surface requires the volume between
> the
> > >surfaces generated by 1/x and 1/x+(coating_thickness), i.e. an infinite
> > >slab.
> >
> > If I'm understanding this correctly, then you're concluding an infinite
> volume
> > of paint is needed to paint the outside surface. But this is false. You
> vary
> > the thickness as you paint to the right, and there's more than enough to
> go
> > around. Make the thickness a function of the radius at a given point, and
> you
> > can paint the surface with an eyedropper of paint.
> >
> > You just can't paint it with a 2-d liquid, whatever that is. It's the
> > ability to vary
> > the 3rd dimension that is missing from the 2-d reality.
> >
> > Paul Hertzel
> > NIACC
> > Mason City
> >
> >
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