Subject: RE: 8th grade final
From: Poese, Debra (dpoese@mc.cc.md.us)
Date: Mon May 01 2000 - 13:04:55 EDT
I think that the ideas communicated here probably have a lot of truth in
them; however, since the "open door" is here to stay, I prefer to ponder
different questions:
Why are students "low-effort"? Is it because they have no experience or
training or role model in being "high-effort"?
How do we turn "low-effort" students into students who can meet
"high-effort" standards?
How do we get students into the right entry-level class, where they can be
successful, but not bored or doomed from the beginning?
Answering these questions will make an impact worth considering.
Deb Poese
Math, Montgomery College, Rockville
From: John M. Flanigan [mailto:johnf@hawaii.edu]
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 10:50 PM
To: Bret Taylor
Cc: Davidatp@aol.com; mathedcc@archives.math.utk.edu
Subject: Re: 8th grade final
Bret, you've suggested a really good question. It's patently obvious that
the open door makes it more likely that students with less commitment will
enroll, but does that also lower the effort of others who, in a more
rigidly-selected population, would be high-effort students? I find that
even though most of my students do not exert enough effort, there are
still some who do.
It would certainly be useful to know if the influence of poor students
does harm to the good ones. (I'm being careful here: I know for certain
that such harm is done in actively-cooperative efforts, such as sports,
drama, business task forces. It's very tempting to expect that it would
hold true in a class.)
John M. Flanigan <johnf@hawaii.edu> The equation is the final arbiter.
Assistant Professor, Mathematics --Werner Heisenberg
Kapi'olani Community College The scoreboard is the final arbiter.
4303 Diamond Head Road --Bill Walton
Honolulu HI 96816 History is the final arbiter.
(808) 734-9371 --Edward Gibbon
On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Bret Taylor wrote:
> I definitely think having an open door policy makes it much harder to get
> high effort from a large percentage of students.
>
> At 09:10 AM 4/30/00 -1000, John M. Flanigan wrote:
> >My sign reads: "High Standards, High Retention, Open Door: Pick Two", but
> >I think some of my non-math colleagues don't like it very much.
> >
> >I remember a similar 8th grade exam printed in my home town newspaper
some
> >years ago. I kept a copy somewhere. I'll try to find it and add to this.
> >
> >John M. Flanigan <johnf@hawaii.edu> The equation is the final
arbiter.
> >Assistant Professor, Mathematics --Werner Heisenberg
> >Kapi'olani Community College The scoreboard is the final
arbiter.
> >4303 Diamond Head Road --Bill Walton
> >Honolulu HI 96816 History is the final arbiter.
> >(808) 734-9371 --Edward Gibbon
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