Re: How do you measure success

__WPS&9WmY3-Q~jf LH.T ("thNAw0k!Bw-*tZ,)
Tue, 1 Oct 1996 01:55:38 -0500

While I agree with comments of Chris Meyer about the varied meanings of
success both for a student and a course, a more limited and quantifiable
measure of success might deal with success within the class (% of A, B,
and C out of those who are officially enrolled) and the success in the
next course (% of A, B, and C in the next class of those who succeeded in
the first class and went on within a year's time to take one for which it
was a prerequisite.) The product of these two rates produces a number
which would allows you to compare how well different instructors are
doing (and takes into account the grade inflation of an "easy" teacher
whose students do poorly in the next class.) For example, if 60% succeed
within the course and 70% of those that go on succeed in the next course,
we have a .42 rate. (Note, you could also throw in as a third factor, the
% of successful students in the first course who even try the second
course. I find that about 30-40% do not.) Such rates could also be
used to compare courses within a sequence to see whether or not the steps
within the sequence are all about the same difficulty.

Just some ideas I have played around with in the past.

I think that we all would like to see 100% of our students pass every
course, but that is a not reasonable expectation. In fact, in most
courses at the community college level, a 60% pass rate seems to be
pretty good. It would be unfortunate if the way we increase students'
success is by demanding less than is reasonable. That would seem to be
part of the problem already. On the other hand, we should always be
looking for ways to help more students reach the standards we set.

On Mon, 30 Sep 1996, Chris J. Meyer wrote:

> Our two-year school, too, is wrestling with the concept of "success." The
> administration and some faculty have one version of success and some of the
> other faculty have another notion of success. I am pleased to see that you
> decided to define the word before your college acts further upon deciding
> how to proceed. We haven't even come that far. It seems that society sees
> success as shear numbers passing. The administration reflects what it sees
> as the public demand. The math faculty, in particular, has been pressured
> into "seeing to it" that more students "make it through" their math
> classes.
>
> This was in a recent memo that I wrote to our Division Dean:
>
> "As much as I would like to, I'm not sure that I can guarantee that the
> student body will "succeed." I can't even guarantee that my own kids will
> succeed. I will do everything within my power to give them the tools to
> make it, but ultimately, it is up to them. No, I will not turn my back on
> them. I love them with all my heart, and it hurts me to see them falter.
>
> "It hurts me to see my students falter too. There are some things beyond
> my control. I can do all the tutoring you or I want, but the bottom line
> is, if students are unwilling or unable to study at home, they will not
> learn the material."
>
> One of our missions is to provide students with the "opportunity" of
> obtaining a college education. I don't think our mission is to "give"
> anyone a college education. One of my colleagues said that our students
> might be successful only in finding out through their experience here that
> they need to pursue some other avenue of providing a living for their
> family. We need to be sensitive to our students dreams and aspirations,
> but giving them a degree at any expense is not doing them a service, in
> fact, we are doing them a disservice.
>
>
> :-)
> Christopher J. Meyer, Professor of Mathematics, Rose State College
> Phone: (405)733-7494
> Internet: CMeyer@ms.rose.cc.ok.us
> -------------
> Original Text
> From Bret Taylor <bret@IAG.NET>, on 9/29/96 10:56 PM:
> Just a philosophical question.
>
> We are all concerned (to some extent) about how well we, individaully, as a
> department or as an institution, are doing our job. Our college (a small
> public community college) administration uses some criteria. I wonder how
> we, as math instructors, decide hwether or not we are successful. Any
> ideas? How do you (or your school) decide whether or not you are
> successfully doing your job?
>
> Actually, I'm getting ready to make about a 20 minute presentation to our
> faculty and administration presenting my point of view. So I'd like to
> hear
> from some other people who say they use the same criteria I do. (Don't
> ask.
> If I told you my criteria it would "bias the input.")
>
> Thanks for any indight you might give.
> Bret Taylor Lake-Sumter Community College Leesburg FL
>
> "It matters not the subject taught, nor all the books on all the shelves.
> What matters more, yes most of all, is what the teachers are themselves."
> John Wooden
>
> John 3: 3 3
>