>Hello All,
>I tend to agree with both Dave and Joni. We do need to serve those students
>who are underprepared. And some students do move through the remedial
>sequence successfully.
>
>However:
>1) Our research shows that only a *very* small percent of the students who
>are required to begin in the arithmetic course ever make it to graduation.
>The percent is larger for those who begin in the remedial algebra, but still
>discouragingly low.
>2) Pressure at the state level, at least in Florida, to ensure that students
>graduate with an AA at 60 semester hours and a BS at 120 (with some
>exceptions), and a possible refusal to pay for more hours, complicates this
>issue. In Florida, we are in the process of deciding if Intermediate Algebra
>is a remedial class. Currently we give college level credit (at least at
>SPJC) for that class, but not credit toward the 6 sem hr math requirement. If
>it becomes remedial, many students will have to complete *3* mathematics
>classes before they begin their college level mathematics work.
>3) A third complication has to do with basic skills. This fall about 80% of
>our students tested into remedial classes. We are using a new state mandated
>test, Florida College Entry-Level Placement Test (FLCEPT), which is NOT
>designed for the students to use a calculator. One problem seems to be that
>students do not have basic computational skills. I wonder how students will
>do with algebraic fractions or factoring (I know the standards deemphasize
>these skills) when the fundamental concepts of fractions, decimals, and even
>the number facts for multiplying and dividing are not available to many
>students. I wonder if we have done these students a major disservice.
>
>Sorry to run on, but these concerns have troubled me recently. Karen
>________________________________________________________
>To: Multiple recipients of list MATHEDCC
>From: The Technology in Mathematics Education (TiME) committee of on Sat, Oct
>26, 1996 12:37 PM
>Subject: Re: Developmental Courses
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>Date: Sat, 26 Oct 1996 12:35:48 -0400
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> "The Technology in Mathematics Education (TiME) committee of"
><MATHEDCC@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
>Sender:
> "The Technology in Mathematics Education (TiME) committee of"
><MATHEDCC@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
>From: Joni Bookbinder <JoniBook@AOL.COM>
>Subject: Re: Developmental Courses
>X-To: MATHEDCC@vm1.mcgill.ca
>To: Multiple recipients of list MATHEDCC <MATHEDCC@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
>
>In a message dated 96-10-25 20:09:20 EDT, GILD@CHEMEK.CC.OR.US (Dave
>Gillette) writes:
>
><< I agree strongly with Gideon Weinstein that a college must accept
> only the students that it can serve; and it must serve the students
> that it accepts. I really feel sorry for the students that apply to the
> school where Lou Talman works. If they can get accepted, but
> can not do the expected math level, they are screwed.
>
> I guess that is why I feel privileged to teach at a community
> college where we can offer 6th grade arithmetic to re-start our
> students with needs, on their journey of academic success.
>
> Dave Gillette
> Chemeketa CC
> P.O. Box 14007
> Salem OR 97309-7070
> (503) 399-6079
> gild@chemek.cc.or.us
>
> Life is a tragedy for those who feel
> and a comedy for those who think.
>
> Horace Walpole
>
> >>
>I must totally agree with Dave. i am now at a community college which offers
>a full range of developmental coursed for the underprepared and thr late
>starters. if you accept a student you must provide them with an education
>that will lead to thier ultimate goal, a college degree and a position in
>society known as a job.
>
>Unlike Talman's college, my last college, for the most part ignores the
>mathematics needs of the students and sends most of them them out into the
>world ill prepared in quantitative skills.
>
> Educational institutions have a long way to go......... Maybe there should
>be a "conditional acceptance" at these schools who refuse to teach any
>developmental.
>
>
>
>Joni Bookbinder
>Elgin Community College
>Elgin IL 60067
>847.697.1000 ext 7505
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
> Brian E. Smith
>Dept of Mathematics TEL: 514-931-8731 Ext 1713
>Dawson College FAX: 514-931-3567
>3040 Sherbrooke St. W. EMAIL: (1) inbs@musicb.mcgill.ca
>Montreal, QC, Canada H3Z 1A4 (2)besmith@dawsoncollege.qc.ca
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I would rather lose in a cause that will someday win, than win in
>a cause that will someday lose -- Woodrow Wilson
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>