Re: [MATHEDCC] What's wrong with education anyway?

Kate Acks (kathy.acks@mauicc.Hawaii.Edu)
Mon, 25 Oct 1999 12:58:41 -1000

John - I am in agreement with you as well. As Harry Truman said the buck stops
here. I have stood very firm with parents who have given money to the school,
parents both bright, younger brother also very bright, but this student could not
handle it. He finally "earned" his AA by taking a Philosophy course and passing
after 2 very earnest attempts on his part to pass my course. He was always in
attendance, did all of the homework, had lots of academic help and could not get
above 15% on any test he ever took from me. I always allow a reference sheet with
formulas and calculators - I think we have to put ourselves in the position of the
person who hires these students and puts out a great deal of money and time to train
them. They assume that with an AA they are capable of, in particular, a basic level
or reading, writing and arithmetic (such as percentages, ratios, etc.). Just my 2
cents. Kate

Bret Taylor wrote:

> I agree completely. And I imagine that is why many outstanding teachers
> leave the profession. Now, as to how to change it - Sorry, it would take a
> book or two, not an e-mail to explain that. :-)
>
> At 09:09 AM 10/24/99 -1000, John M. Flanigan wrote:
> >Bret's comments must elicit sympathetic responses from many of us. But
> >there is a more fundamental problem: What happens when the teacher does
> >the honest thing and gives failing grades to those students? The parents
> >and administrators swoop down in a fury! If the student has been the
> >recipient of inflated grades previously, the first teacher to be honest
> >will suffer! Who has an idea of how to change that?
> >
> >John M. Flanigan <johnf@hawaii.edu> The equation is the final arbiter.
> >Assistant Professor, Mathematics --Werner Heisenberg
> >Kapi'olani Community College The scoreboard is the final arbiter.
> >4303 Diamond Head Road --Bill Walton
> >Honolulu HI 96816 History is the final arbiter.
> >(808) 734-9371 --Edward Gibbon
> >
> >On Sun, 24 Oct 1999, Bret Taylor wrote:
> >
> >> I just read with great interest Vern Kays e-mail on the dangers of
> >> standardization and "teaching the test." I agree in principle with much of
> >> this message.
> >>
> >> But, I think we as teachers need to accept our fair share of the blame for
> >> declining standards.
> >>
> >> Students are being passed along without learning anything. I could go into
> >> a great diatribe, but I'll try to refrain. Just some anecdotal evidence to
> >> support my position:
> >>
> >> Student A has made 30's on three straight tests. He asks me if he can do a
> >> bulliten board to bring his grade up to a C.
> >>
> >> Student B says, "I'm failing. What are you going to do to get me a passing
> >> grade?"
> >>
> >> Student C makes a B in every year of High School math, including
> >> trigonometry. This student plaecs into developmental mathematics in college.
> >>
> >> Student D tells me, "I don't have to know the quadratic formula. I have a
> >> program on my calculator that gives me the answer." When I point out, among
> >> other things, that the program gives wrong answers, the student replies, "It
> >> can't. If my calculator says it, it must be right."
> >>
> >> Student E takes AP calculus in High School. He makes a 1 on the AP exam.
> >> He, by an articulation agreement between our community college and the local
> >> school district, places directly into my calculus class. He makes a 12 and
> >> a 7 on the first two exams. He withdraws. I do a little research. He was
> >> in an AP calculus class with 6 students. The grades they made on the AP
> >> exam were five 1's and one 2. All six students had a final average of 95 or
> >> higher in the course.
> >>
> >> I could go on and on. But, until we as teachers stand up and say, "A
> >> transcript is almost sacred to a teacher. The grade on that transcript
> >> means something. I will not put a grade on a transcript that I do not
> >> think, in my professional opinion, most accurately reflects your knowledge
> >> of the course."
> >>
> >> One last comment: Lest anyone think I'm pointing the finger at high school
> >> teachers alone, I'm not. I'm sick and tired of teachers telling me how ill
> >> prepared they are when they come into the class. And how poor their study
> >> habits are. How how little effort they put forth. (And how vividly they
> >> state their opinion of the students' intelligence.) But, when the end of
> >> the semester comes, these very same students make A's and B's. When I ask
> >> the teacher to explain, the answer is usually something like, "Well, if I
> >> held them to a reasonable standard they'd all fail."
> >>
> >> Folks, where there is no possibility of failure, there is no chance of
> success.
> >>
> >> I'll climb back down off my soap box now. Thanks for letting me vent. :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bret Taylor "It matters not the subject taught,
> >> Lake-Sumter Community College nor all the books on all the shelves.
> >> Leesburg, FL What matters more, yes most of all,
> >> John 3:3^3+3 is what the teachers are themselves."
> >> John Wooden
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
>
> Bret Taylor "It matters not the subject taught,
> Lake-Sumter Community College nor all the books on all the shelves.
> Leesburg, FL What matters more, yes most of all,
> John 3:3^3+3 is what the teachers are themselves."
> John Wooden
>
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